"This is the beginning of the end of Putin's regime" | Exclusive interview with Žygimantas Pavilionis

Guest of the Day's exclusive interview with Žygimantas Pavilionis, chairman of the Lithuanian parliament's foreign affairs committee:

• - We are beginning to talk about the Ukrainian war, the civilizational confrontation between the West and Russia, which has taken a more violent form. The more time passes and the more resistance Putin encounters, the more brutal his methods of combat become, maternities and schools are being bombed, newborn babies are being killed. And that is why we constantly hear the Ukrainian President's demand to close the skies. Will the West go this far to save the lives of Ukrainians?

- Establishing a no-fly zone is not easy. We do not have the necessary air defence systems even in the NATO member states of the Baltics. It is therefore naive to think that NATO will do it. However, the United States can do it, and we can ask our American brothers and sisters to think seriously about it. The most important thing is air traffic control, which we can implement in a variety of measures, not only tactical, like the stingers supplied by Lithuania, but also strategic, and the more we supply the better.

Two weeks ago only a few countries were doing this, now everybody is doing it. However, this will not only be direct military aid, but also economic pressure on Russia, all its banks, oligarchs, oil and gas. This is the beginning of the end of Putin's regime, and of course we will also be looking closely at different countries like Georgia to see whose side they are on. Are they on the Ukrainian side who are fighting for everybody's freedom, including Lithuania and Georgia, or are they trying to benefit economically from this war, which I find outrageous.

• - I understand what you are saying and that is why we, the citizens of Georgia, immediately distanced ourselves from this shameful government policy and Tbilisi became the first city where the largest civil protest took place, We, the citizens of Georgia, took to the streets and loudly expressed our solidarity with Ukraine and our common struggle for freedom.

- Of course, Ukrainians see that Georgian people are on their side, as do Lithuanians, but the official position of the country is also very important. I understand that the Georgian government is trying to sit on two benches at the same time, i.e. to appease Russia and simultaneously to apply for the EU membership, now Ukrainians are paying for it with their blood. The message from the European Parliament was very strong, but now our task is to convince our Northern sisters and brothers, who have always supported us on this issue, as well as the Benelux countries, the Spanish and the Portuguese, to take this strategic decision and open the EU door to this country whose citizens are dying for common values.

The leaders of countries that do not do so will also be responsible for the fate of these people. We need to eliminate these grey areas and have a sharp attitude towards countries such as Ukraine and Georgia, and we need a sharp stance from you on which side you are on. In the case of Ukraine it is quite obvious, but in the case of Georgia it is questionable.

• - Georgia's imprisoned third president has sent an urgent letter to the EU asking them to support the accession of Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova, Georgia has been at war with Russia for the last 30 years, do you think it could open this window for us now, especially as the society is so active?

- Putin will always try to divide society in a neighbouring country. If a country is internally divided and the government jails political opponents or demonises the opposition, this sends a very bad signal to many EU and NATO member states. Also, when one candidate country does not dare to show solidarity with another candidate country, as Georgia is doing today for strange reasons, then even more questions arise, because the EU is first and foremost a solidarity club. So if you cannot show this solidarity, it turns out that you will be another Hungary and no one wants you.

• - And yet, in your view, what is Putin's main goal now that he has failed to break Ukraine, instead leading to an unprecedented unity within the West and when the whole world is united against his fascist policies, apart from exceptions?

- I don't know what Putin's final plan is, but I think that the Georgian government should reconsider its position on different issues - for example, on democracy in their own country, on the EU roadmap that was rejected last year, because the changes that are taking place now are tectonic. If the Georgian Dream continues to behave as if nothing is happening, these changes will bury all the dreams of Georgia. Because if Ukraine loses this war, Russian tanks will be very close to Tbilisi.

But I am convinced that Ukraine will win, and it will be very hard for the members of the Georgian Dream to face Ukrainians and representatives of other countries, be it Lithuania, America or any other country. I even talked about New Zealand today, which is standing for Ukraine alongside Australia. Only five countries support Russia, and not a single western country wants to have coffee with them. So these are the days of litmus test, when you need to find out who you really are. So I hope that the government of Georgia will wake up.

Now I see that they have some differences with the President of Georgia. I do not care much about the details. I want the brave Georgian people to stand by the Ukrainians today. I was Deputy Foreign Minister when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008. We did everything that we could back then, just as we are doing everything today. We are now expecting that a country like Georgia, which was receiving all the help from us back then and even our leaders were coming to Tbilisi, not just show support, but will genuine support, 200-300 percent support Ukraine. And today, when I hear government's statements, the support is just 50 percent. Do you think you can join the EU in such a situation?

• - The liberal part of Georgian society, the political class is well aware of this, the main thing now is for the government to understand what perspective the country is losing. Returning to the threats posed to Ukraine by Putin, he sometimes mentions chemical weapons, sometimes nuclear weapons or nuclear power plants. What is the likelihood of these dangers? 

- We are not just talking about the nuclear threat. Every life lost by a Russian bullet, missile or bomb is priceless. What is happening in Ukraine is a crime against humanity, a war crime. All those responsible will be brought to justice sooner or later. Now, if you only pay the economical price, you will have to pay for their actions in full. In addition, those who seek to profit from these war crimes will have to be held accountable, at least their actions will be properly evaluated in the international arena.

Now we see that Russia is paying a high price. One expert said well what Russia has been for the last 30 years. It is a little "Hut" equipped with western technology, and now we have removed that technology. So if you want to live with this old hut and benefit from the blood of Ukrainians, it is your will. But then, no one in the world respects you except Chinese and Russian dictators.

I am convinced that the Georgian people support the Ukrainians, and I hope that the Georgian government will soon wake up and do what is necessary for democracy.